Couldn’t agree more with this post. But I actually think race is a red herring here. I think this whole debacle is more about egos than it is about race. People who weren’t mentioned are upset that they weren’t in the article. But not every article remotely related to Web 2.0 or internet or mobile can list every single remotely related person in the country. And in this case, the people who were interviewed were clearly outstanding figures in the industry, who each chose three people - who, I certainly believe, were not chosen because of the colour of their skin.

Great post, and you are right to point out that it was in fact the author who started the whole controversy.

Mandy felt it was necessary to refer to “white boys club”, and her own writing and choice of participants supported her conclusion. I think this was a mistake on her part.

She later mentioned to me in a twitter message that the approached people on Ramon’s list to participate in the article, but they declined or did not get back to her. She should have mentioned this in the article, and suddenly the “White boy’s club” would be an non-issue.

Hey Jason - Ye I think that is ego-centric and I think this is one of the major problems and major positives in our online market. People with big egos like to push, succeed, innovate and compete and this makes the market better to an extent but it needs to stop somewhere and hasn’t here.

Eve- Yep that should’ve been included in Mandy’s story. Again transparency is the downfall here. Why would should not feel the need to disclose that information and then undermine her own article? Makes no sense to me.

I’m not sure where my heart lies; on one hand I see Thomas’ post as purely provocative, intended to engage us on what appears to be an easily divisible set of online web entrepreneurs. What I find most embarrassing, is the persistent reliance on race as a key defining entity, as if it plotted an individuals merit, history and ethnic background on some sort of blue print. It doesn’t, essentialists view race like that, born with it, deal with it. Ramon and I guess to some degree Mandy played about this essentialist notion of race, if they’d seen past it they’d probably see a couple people competing in a very competitive space, where on one day Nic you may me be the best blogger in the land and on another day, should the winds change I might be.

I’m suck and F*cki*g tired of this insistence on pulling out the race card, if you’re able to write a blog you’re in a competitive space be you black, white, asian, coloured , indian or other…

there are many errors in my post…

played = played about in

Suck = sick

Fatigue is hampering my writing ability, Nic save my grammatical soul!

I was working on http://www.unitedforafrica.co.za instead of responding to Mandy. What would you have done?

Possibly I don’t get all this since I haven’t read the original Mandy article but I don’t get the furore. Of course the online arena is a “white boys club”. Considering our countries legacy whites tend to have more money thus access to computers and internet. Those “Historically Disadvantaged” members of our population lack the skills and access. Considering there is little over 1 Million ADSL lines in our country we have a long way to go.

Correct me if I’m wrong (and since I’ve missed a lot I probably am very wrong) but isn’t this like doing an expose on how a person with legs beat a paraplegic in a race?

Rafiq - this was in no way a dig at you. It was a fact. You were asked but did not contribute. People need to know the facts before they go around tossing the race card in to the equation. That’s all.

Nic, good post.

I think the point is, black empowerment need not alienate anyone.

The simple truth is, we need more black web professionals. I’m 100% sure that business owners of all races will agree with me on that one.

Employment equity is a real everyday business consideration. When a company is hiring, they want the best talent. At the same time, they need to ensure a certain balance of profile. The dearth of black talent makes the balancing act all the harder.

So my idea was simply to call for collective action from the industry to find long-term solutions to a problem that we all need to acknowledge. It’s about capacity building within the online sector.

A previous commenter, SaulK, hit the nail on the head methinks.

What’s Nic’s argument really? He turns his defensiveness about the whiteness of the SA blogosphere /geekdom (Steve Hofmeyr’s racist rants is one of the top blogs) into attacking the victim. Heh?

Bongo Maffin - I find it hard to take criticism from someone who hides behind their comments with a fake name…

Who said anything about me being ashamed of anything? I’m not. But you clearly are scared of your own opinions. What is your real name? Who are you? Let’s have a transparent chat… then we can talk, maybe.

I have a mixed view, that there are racial issues which do need to be spoken about and delt with, but that the way they are spoken about also has to be focused on.

I don’t however appreciate that many people who have not necessarily experienced discrimination feel the need to criticize those who want to express their experience.

I agree with Rafiq, and those who say action speaks louder than words, but this does not mean we have to shut up and just go about our business. certain elements of racial discriminiation do exist and there is not a shadow of a doubt. If you have not been affected, good for you, but do you know what it feels like to be treated like you are less based on the way you look.

I think discussion and debate is needed, all views have an impact as this is a multi-dimensional issue. Speaking though is also a form of action.

I set up a project called http://www.one-project.org to look at many of the efforts going on to tackle these issues. I shared my thoughts with quite a few people and tried to get involvement. I can honestly say, it’s not always what you do but who you are that decides whether people will support or endorse you or not.

I wanted to set up a platform similar to tech leader & thought leader to allow regular South Africans from all spheres of society to write about their experience and share idea of how to change things, but I know I can’t do it alone. Anyone want to help?

Nomad-one - “but do you know what it feels like to be treated like you are less based on the way you look.” You said it… my point is that now, it’s not about what you do, but about what you do in relation to the way you look. Your words.

What you do in relation to the way you look? Not with you 100% Nic. Are you saying the playing field has been leveled or am I misinterpreting?

[...] As Nic pointed out, the purpose of the article was pretty innocuous: The angle of the article was simply an interview and answer process. Certain people who are major players in the online market were asked to name three people who they would want to work with in the online arena. These people did so. Not based on racial innuendos as justifications. These were simply the people who each interviewee wished to work with on a professional level. [...]

Hmmm, I think you’ve hit something interesting here, Nic.

I thought Mandy did a good job, and as you so rightly point out, she didn’t force the answers. Sure some were left off [thanks for what you said about my post] but that will always happen, regardless of their colour.

Agree with you, doesn’t need to be looked at from a racial point of view. The best are the best, doesn’t matter what colour they are.

Nomad-One - well, you are missing my point here. You are disagreeing with me somewhat but still stating that race should be irrelevant, which is exactly what I am saying. It should be about the individual as a person, human being and the work they produce that makes them the best. Not the best white, black, colored, indian, greek etc etc etc. The best should be the best, all round.

Nic I was by no means trying to create a box. I was simply putting forward a group of people who could have been interviewed by Mandy De Waal. She knows me personally because we have met before (via Arthur Goldstuck). She never asked me if I could recommend someone to be interviewed for her article. The people from ITWeb have interviewed me numerous times for other stories so they all know me as well.

The box that you are talking about has been in existence for a long, long time. The mindset of the black professionals needs to change. I have been advocating the book, Capitalist Nigger, be read for a full appreciation of the challenge that exists to stop complaining and actually get off our asses and do something. So this post of mine was addressed at those people featured more than anyone else.

Ramon, that’s fair enough and it’s easy to say that this wasn’t your intention but there are little nuances that imply that race is the issue. The title of your post is racial, not subtly so either. Thus it’s hard to believe that your intentions weren’t racially based.

Plus from what I hear there were a few people of colour who turned down the opportunity to feature in Mandy’s article.

Furthermore, I am sure that Mandy did choose to ask people for suggestions for the article, just not yourself, and is that such a sin?

Now, I hate even referring to anyone by socially-constructed lables.

However, “whites” (as defined by the NP years ago) need to lay low and let the shit blow over when this kinda thing happens. It’s the only way. There’s absolutely nothing you can say to allegations allegations in the era we live in today. There’s no use being indignant about it. The reason the playing field is tilted is because Krokodil tilted it with his draconian policies, and white people still benefit from it. There’s no getting around it.

One day, white people will have a foot to stand on in these debates. But right now, just be suitably contrite. Then just carry on like you did before.

Hopefully our children won’t have to do the same thing.

I also feel that the “Web 2.0″ craze should not be about race. According to the government I am “black”, but I do not think that BEE should be allowed to soil our industry.

I have been building online communities since my stint at UCT and when I came to Wits things just got better. The truth is, my team and I managed put together a good site although we failed dismally when it came to the marketing, we still put on a good show for the Wits populace.

Why cant we leave race out of this, if a site rocks it rocks..we have got a common enemy; bandwidth, so lets get coding.