Atheism and Christianity – someone needs to be right

by Nic Haralambous on 11/10/2007

I have been very cautious about bloging on this topic. The reasons are obvious. But I feel that it is time.

It is no secret that I am an Atheist. Anyone who reads this blog will know that and I have no problem with others knowing it either. It is not something that I am ashamed of, as much of society dictates people in my position need to feel.

I have been reading Jarred Cinman’s blog on ThoughtLeader recently and he has made some great arguments on the topic, see “Why atheists are just plain right“.

My stance on religion (or lack thereof) comes under fire on a daily basis just about. I have no problem with this as I enjoy the topic and enjoy rational, reasonable debate around the topic.

Note my use of the words rational and reasonable. There are some arguments that I will never accept as final from a christian; “Just have faith” is one of them and, “I simply believe” is another. Let me put it to you this way, I don’t have faith and I don’t believe. That is that.

In the same way, I want to express something to those that challenge atheism and feel that we are wrong: We (atheists and christians) suffer from basic but opposite assumptions, I believe there is no god, you believe there is. At the end of the day this is where the argument starts and this is where it will always end. We do not believe the same thing. Simple.

In my mind there is a very obvious reason for the raging debate however and this is where my post really starts. The reason is this:

By the very nature that christians believe in the bible – which states that you need preach the word of god – they must innately believe that anyone who does not believe in the bible or Jesus or god is wrong. That’s me. I’m wrong.

Now I am taking a very scientific and analytical stance here. When I argue, I argue by asking what the difference is between my “wrongness” and how I perceive your beliefs to be “wrong”? There is no difference. Christians ask me to disprove the existence of their god, I ask them to prove it to me. They ask me to disprove heaven and I ask them to prove hell. There is no solution here.

Yet without a solution we are lost. Why? Because one of us are wrong according to our belief systems.

I am not going to continue providing examples, explanations and justifications as I think this is a very circular argument that will ultimately take us back to the starting point of differing belief systems. But why, why must I be wrong? Take a second and think, is it possible, for a split second, that you could be wrong?

nharalambous@gmail.com

There are 10 comments in this article:

  1. 11/10/2007robert says:

    God is just an manmade invention centuries past its shelflife expiry date to hold power over people, to control them and get them to depart with their hard earned cash.

    Afterall, what church would stand back and do nothing about funding AIDS/HIC research and medicine dispersment programmes to thos countries in most need?

    I can tell you that a church I though believed in a god would bankrupt itself to provide help.

    But instead we get the old stock answer, “we do help, we do spend millions but it is ultimately the governments’ responsibility”.

    Here is nor hypocracy by a church – what doninee/predikant drives a 1995 car? I do not recall one dominee/predikant owning a suit that old either? All drove Mercs and all wore the best suits. And all lived in fantastic homes.

    But I did know a padre whose chariot was his walking stick, his home a paltry boxlike abode, who would argue and debate the pros and cons of perceived Christianity versus religios orders and lived a spartan existence to bring some form of spiritual wellbeing too anyone who cared to listen. Acceptance of his faith was not a precondition to holding a conversation with him.

    I do not normally discuss religion. I always deemed it a person’s private domain to hold a spiritual belief that they felt appropriate.

    I do think religion is way past its sell by date.

    We need to move on but only after Canterbury, the Vatican and the other religions orders bankrupt thenselves in genuine attempts to find a cure for AIDS/HIV, cancer and other illnesses for which millions and millions of ‘God’s Children’ are dependent on ignorant governments for medical help to see the sunrise again tomorrow.

  2. 17/10/2007Guy McLaren says:

    This blog has been nominated along with the absa blog of yours for top 100 blogs on trafficdepartment.co.za

  3. 17/10/2007madgenius says:

    Wow a lot of bitter words. Christianity is about your relationship with Jesus. Not about churches, the Vatican and aids. I too was a non believer, then I progressed to hating and cursing God. With my back to the wall I had no option but to turn to God. It has taken me years to get anointed and filled with the Holy Spirit. My question to you is what if Jesus does exist and the Bible is right? Why would you want to take the chance of facing God’s wrath? Come on over to Jesus. Get the joy inside.

  4. 17/10/2007Nic says:

    madgenius – so you are saying that the fear of the possibility of god should keep me loyal?

    That’s like threating to beat your child and placing the fear of you in them. Then they live their lives in eternal fear of what their actions might mean.

    That’s just not right in any way shape or form. Ever.

  5. 19/10/2007madgenius says:

    Nope Nic, I am saying that people need to develop a relationship with Jesus. Then read the Bible, find out what God’s promises are, then pray for them to manifest in your life. The new testament tells us of the grace of God. It is not difficult all you have to do is accept Jesus as saviour and you go to heaven. If you are challenging God then you will go to hell, it has nothing to do with your actions, it has to do with accepting Christ as your saviour. I do not get what the reward for not believing is, can you explain it to me? I wrote a blog after reading this one, perhaps you should read it. The reward of being born again is everlasting life and heaven, what is your reward?

  6. 3/01/2008Kevin says:

    Hi Nic

    I’m also an atheist (and ex-Christian) and have been thinking along similar lines.

    I enjoy your blog. Will visit often.

    All the best
    Kevin

  7. 3/01/2008Nic says:

    Hey Kevin,

    Thanks for the kind words, glad you’ll be coming back!

  8. 23/01/2008Paul Botha says:

    Many religious persons have double standards:

    Notice how courts require a “so help me god” oath (forbidden in some religeous texts) to try to make witnesses tell the truth, but a court’s own legal standards of evidence would not support the existence of this god referred to in the oath.

    Many claim to beleive in god or some other deity, but if one of these religeous persons had a pal that claimed to have been spoken to by god, no matter what the religeous person says to you, they will actually think the neighbour is loony.

    Humans function quite well in this dualistic fashion, so unfortunately there can be no right or wrong, or end to the argument.

    We beleive, as adults, what we choose to believe (in religeous terms) for one of only three reasons: habit, underlying fear of the unknown, or the application of logic and what we observe around us.

  9. 23/01/2008Paul Botha says:

    I was reading madgenuis’ comments. It reminds me of the old standby I got from a catholic buddy years ago: “well I don’t know if there is a god, but i’ll behave in the religeous fashion required (by other humans) just in case.”

    That’s just not a good argument.

    I also find it particularly difficult as a human with five senses to develop a relationship with someone who gives me no intelligible feedback, (as I suspect 95% of the planet’s population feels, but does not admit to for various reasons) Tried it for years. I suppose the pat answer is that I’m not looking in the right places. Well, that’s simply not how a relationship with mortals works.

    My mind remains open. I’ll be convinced if I experience something truly supernatural. Until then, all I have is my logic and observation to work with.

  10. 23/01/2008Nic says:

    Paul, good rational comments that you’ve posted. I agree with most of what you’ve said.

Write a comment: