I guess you have a point, but this is forceful implimentation of their “policy” that we have not been made aware of prior to the “click this” or forever hold you peace option.

I dunno, just smacks of force and a dictatorial approach to me!

Eish, this is not good, so we have to keep our money with them, there strategy insists on reducing branches so we bank online and then they throw this at their users.

Its unbelievable

The points you make about Big Corporate heavy handedness is valid (I really hate my bank too, the green one), but one point you made needs further examination.

“..breaches that occur while using THEIR system.”

How does an organisation that has no control over external brand touchpoints reduce the negative impact on them? In online banking, an outside system is used to interface with theirs ie. a network connection, computer and browser.

If that external system is compromised, where does the responsibility lie?

My take is that ABSA should be creating a legal firewall between their responsibility and users of their services (are they responsible when you draw cash at an ATM and then mugged a few blocks away?)- that makes business sense.

But from a customer experience point of view, as everyone rightly points out, it sucks.

So they, and the other banks, should be doing more - eg. JBagley’s raising awareness; more investment in technologies like SMS to act as a remote control for one’ bank account (like a Spot ‘cam’ on your account). FNB are big on this, not sure about ABSA…

Bottom line: it’s at the interfaces that things break down, so how can organisations improve this without retreating into the legal laager. Hmm…thanks Nic, you’ve seeded some interesting riffs for me

Sure Simon, I like planting, and Im glad ive seeded something!!

My basic frustration is that they put “optional” terms that give you no option other than to click if you want to access YOUR OWN money online. Ridiculous.

Read the flipping disclaimer: “as a result thereof, … fraud is committed on my account”

In other words:

(1) ABSA have warned you before about this risky behaviour.

(2) Since users aren’t taking responsibility for their actions, and there is no technological means by which ABSA can reduce the risk against these specific vulnerabilities, ABSA’s only option is to transfer the risk onto the consumer.

(3) These is still a burden of proof that any fraud committed is as a result of one of these risky actions on the part of the client.

(4) It does NOT say that all fraud is your problem. It says that fraud resulting from certain risky actions is your problem.

There’s nothing insidious, suspect, dodgy, or even vaguely unpleasant about this. It’s equivalent to your insurance company telling you that you aren’t covered if you give your front door key to a guy standing in the street who asked for it, and they can show that your action was the cause of the robbery.

I am not so sure I agree with you. What if I access my account from my phone, or an internet cafe becuase I have no other choice? Then something happens to my money. How is it possibly OK for them to say that it is not their problem?

I get what you are saying. They have no other option, and I get that it’s kind of a necessary evil, but what about people who aren’t as clued up as me? They wont understand it, tick it and go and do something stupid (which is what Absa is trying to protect themselves from - I know).

Thanks for the comment. I can see where you are coming from, but I still don’t like the fact that I can’t access my money unless I click the tick box which I am forced to click without a choice.

What if you give your front door key to someone else, because you have no other choice?

People do this occasionally, but they weigh up the risks: do I trust this person to enter my house and not break or steal anything? How essential is it that they have access?

The make their choice knowing they lose their insurance cover if the act of giving out the key leads to a risk event (theft, breakage, etc).

We know and accept this because (1) insurance has always worked this way (in our memory) and (2) we’re not stupid with our front door key.

But despite decades of customer education we’re still stupid with our PINs and passwords. Why? Because they are an externality to us. Someone else (like a bank) has always picked up the tab for PIN/password stupidity, so there is no reason for us to change our behaviour. The consequences of the risk are not ours to bear.

How do we fix the situation? Change the rules so that the customer retains the risk and it is no longer an externality. Then the customer is forced to alter their behaviour in order to reduce the probability of a risk event (or to take a decision to accept the risk and continue with their behaviour).

In the past people would hand their gate keys to people in overalls and “Metro” caps trusting that they were there to read the meter. They would pull over in response to wild gesticulations of something under their car. They would leave their handbag on the passenger seat, take a shortcut home through Hillbrow, and leave their front doors unlocked. We don’t do these things anymore because they’re too risky. We tut-tut when people do these things and it goes wrong, but don’t really feel sorry for them because they were being stupid.

In a few years time we will look back and say “I can’t believe banks ever picked up the costs of fraud with people acting stupidly like that”.

- If you HAVE to access your account, use your cell phone or an ATM. Yes, your cell phone is okay (in fact it’s one of the most secure ways of transacting).
- Don’t use a public internet terminal, and never respond to e-mail, SMS or verbal requests to provide or update your details — always use a private computer to visit the banks site by typing in the URL yourself, or go in to a branch.
- Remember that FICA laws require you to go to a bank branch with an ID document and proof of address in order to update your address, so any request by a financial service provider to confirm or update these details MUST be a scam!

Saved by the bell.

I was considering moving my entire portfolio - home loan, car finance, the works - to Absa. It’s certainly not the only reason, but closing my cheque account with them over lunch today feels kinda right when I hear of outrages like this.

What is it with banks in SA? - The Customer is the Enemy?

I guess they need to advise the stupid that if they follow a link for yet another phishing scam they will not be responsible. In this case I actually think them making you read it twice to reinforce the issue is pretty damn bright. If you click through you cannot claim you have not been warned. How would you propose the bank advises their clients who are dumb enough to fall for 419 scams and phishing that this exists?

Sorry I think you are out of line bitching about a service the banks should be putting there every time you sign up or you actually tick a box saying, I read this and understood it. Take responsibility. It is probably not aimed at those of us with just over half a brain, just at the majority of brain dead induhviduals that send out emails that promise me a case of wine if I forward it to 10 people.

See what you are not allowing for is the sheep factor.

You would think that the interest rates they charge would cover the costs.

The banks are raping us big time.

How could we have been so stupid, but it looked so real!!!!!

We have just found out that we have are victims of the email / cellphone scam otherwise known as phising.

I swear this scam is truely a work of art. The way they get your bank details “is (looks) so legit!”

You get an email where they tell you to update your personal details. You then click on the link. You are then taken to a site which looks just like the ABSA banking site. You have to log on before you could access your personal details to be updated, so you enter your details enable to log on (this includes your password and pin as always when logging on). When you click submit the site hangs and you think that you must try later.

Before you notice someone has done a sim swap on your cellphone and your money is in someone elses bank account.

I get how they got my personal and bank details, but how the HELL did they manage to do the sim swop??????

Surely Vodacom / Cell C / MTN should take some responsibility in clamping down on fraudulent sim swops???

Please guys I know you are all quite p!ssed off at the bank’s attitudes, but make sure that you do not fall into this trap or you will not have to worry about your money’s safety anymore, as you will have no money left.

Good luck - Warn all your friends!!!